"Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

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Urungus
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Urungus » 08 Nov 2015, 23:35

NUMBERZero wrote:I was thinking that the Ion Cannon's shots can stick to player ships. Increase the shot size to make that more probable. Increase energy consumption so that it won't last in a dogfight. Decrease shot movement speed. It'd then make for a good close range surprise attack/ambush weapon.

You could also make it so that any shots on the wall will detonate as soon as a ship comes by instead of just on a timer. Keep the timer so that these things don't start hanging around all over the place, but this could also make it an ambush weapon if you time it right, or an escape weapon. I would consider decreasing the splash damage if you do that, but I would also recommend not adjusting the damage quite yet and just see how making it a sort of proximity bomb works out first. Keep the splash damage radius tho.
This is something along the lines I was just thinking about. I treat the Ion Cannon more like a grenade launcher (think Halo Plasma grenade) since they are sticky, there is a delay and an explosion.
I was thinking lower the fire rate, increase the damage radius. Perhaps up the energy usage a tick or two.

Also, you could treat it like a mine as #0 stated BUT have a mode change to Detonate your trap.
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by STealTH » 09 Nov 2015, 07:45

After reading all your ideas and taking the last four hours of pondering on this only, I will agree with Deathwinger. I think this should be a plasma replacement, not to copy D, but to have a much needed weapon for each situation.

- Lasers are spread out, they should be slower, bigger and more powerful. They are great for covering a greater area in a room = their purpose
- Gattling should be a dogfighting and long distance fast of insta hitting weapon, much like the gauss was.
- It's hard to tell what general purpose the dispersion holds at the moment. It's spread out but not consistent fire so a weapon that spread is missing. Of course, spread means it must be weaker.
- The Ion currently is like a granade launcher which is easily avoided. We are still missing faster firepower than lasers. bangbangbangbangbangbang hitting you as you dogfight in close quarters that's missing.
- The MAC is the gimmick weapon that should be equally as good with a joystick. Placement ahead of time ahead of time matters. sharp aim/fast delivery = mouse. Smart placement cause you can't aim fast enough = joystick.

The key is that these weapons are all of equal value but better an different rooms and with fighting styles that are present and can't be easily avoided, in every level.
In D the Fusion was slow, lasers were not as slow, spread was also not as slow by spread and weak, plasma was fast, gauss was very fast. A speed for every occasion and balanced. Looking for a similar spread.

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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by deathwinger » 09 Nov 2015, 22:18

This comment is based on what I've been seeing on the forums. The ION Cannon perhaps could be an alternative plasma cannon.

There are complaints that the weapons selection right now has no finisher weapons, as well as a higher rated bread and butter weapon.

Have we considered instead of making the ION cannon as complex as it is to just be a modification of the original Descent plasma cannon? Higher firing rate, fast and straight projectile and a higher hit mass than that of the lasers.

Only difference could be is the colour of the actual projectile (perhaps make it blue or red to be easily identified).

Just a thought as there seems to be so much debate about this weapon and its practical usage.

I'm thinking maybe in this case, maybe simple is the better option (even though its not particularly something I'd want because I like new crazy weapons but even I go overboard lol)

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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Ion » 10 Nov 2015, 01:42

It's listed as an anti-matter weapon, so maybe it could function more like the Super-Heated Plasma from Pyromania, giving it a slow muzzle velocity but it has a blast radius. Instead of it being timed mines, you could saturate the air with slow-moving projectiles to make a temporary wall to either corner foes, get away, or completely level stationary defenses or slow-moving, heavier foes.

I still like my fragmenting weapon idea more, because it's not a widely used mechanic.
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Whiteshark » 14 Nov 2015, 10:55

Having played more I think the Ion cannon is a pretty fun weapon, and the only acts needed to balance it is to reduce the energy cost, nerf MAC and make lasers stand out from them more. You can either make lasers slower and more powerful, or the ion cannon much slower. I prefer the fast rate of fire of lasers to flood areas, so I would slow down it's speed and use ion to a little different kind of flooding, as well as direct hitting. The energy cost is an important balancing factor vs. lasers, but it is slightly too big at the moment.

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Urungus
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Urungus » 21 Nov 2015, 07:28

Just throwing this out there. Ion cannon, slow down the RoF and instead of them being sticky they bounce (if so aimed) once and come to a stop? Adjust the energy usage as needed. Travel time would be short. Same fuse time. It would make them a bit more pesky if you could float them in the middle of a small area. Could also make it a missile defense weapon of sorts. That may be pushing it, though.
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Gravity and Weapons

Post by Aggressor Prime » 21 Nov 2015, 19:08

From my testing, it seems that both the Ion Cannon and the flare are affected by gravity. I can launch the Ion Cannon straight up, and if I have enough distance, it will make its way down before exploding mid-air. This can be a problem when trying to attack an enemy above me, but is more of a problem when attacking someone in front of me. The Ion particles will drop below my target, especially if I fire from a distance.

I don't know if this is by design, but I would advise removing the effect of gravity from all weapons.

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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by InVader » 23 Nov 2015, 09:29

The Gauss is the one weapon I don't want to see return. High RoF, high damage, fast projectile speed, low ammo consumption... it was ridiculously OP. Even in the campaign levels, you found it on lvl 3 and never switched to anything else unless you ran out of ammo (you didn't).

I'd say the Dispersion should be the replacement for the gauss. At least at close range. After playing a bit more with it, I have to admit the spread is indeed a bit too high, for it to be a viable close range weapon. It has to be a real killer at close range.

Oh and making it automatic instead of semi-automatic would be great. I think a bit slower than laser rate of fire would be appropriate. The point would be to make it a hard hitting close range weapon.

EDIT: Just came up with an idea for the Ion. How making it split as it hits the wall? It would explode into lasers that ricochet from walls? Probably a neat idea, but we would still be missing a good finisher weapon x)

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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Urungus » 24 Nov 2015, 07:46

InVader wrote:I'd say the Dispersion should be the replacement for the gauss. At least at close range. After playing a bit more with it, I have to admit the spread is indeed a bit too high, for it to be a viable close range weapon. It has to be a real killer at close range.

Oh and making it automatic instead of semi-automatic would be great. I think a bit slower than laser rate of fire would be appropriate. The point would be to make it a hard hitting close range weapon.
I concur, that the choke should be tightened a bit. It's pretty spread out even at close range. All shot should hit at even near point blank range, no? But I'm not sure if making it auto would help it. I like the idea of a semi-auto shotgun.
Could try taking 1/3 of the spread out at max spread range and give it another go?
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by 1/2Hawk » 24 Nov 2015, 18:39

A tighter choke is already in R4 along with a complete overhaul of the Ion - stay tuned.
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