"Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

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Urungus
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Urungus » 25 Nov 2015, 04:28

1/2Hawk wrote:A tighter choke is already in R4 along with a complete overhaul of the Ion - stay tuned.
*drool*
We're going to need a bigger boat.

STealTH
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by STealTH » 25 Nov 2015, 12:00

InVader wrote:The Gauss is the one weapon I don't want to see return. High RoF, high damage, fast projectile speed, low ammo consumption... it was ridiculously OP. Even in the campaign levels, you found it on lvl 3 and never switched to anything else unless you ran out of ammo (you didn't).
Perhaps it's a weapon that should have been added in for the latter stages of the single player campaign. Yeah, it is OP against targets that don't move well.
I think all weapons should be measured against their use in multiplayer though, preferably 1on1s. Under those terms, the gauss never was OP.

The gauss was good but that was determined by the ability of the other player's movements. If they used the AB a lot and tricorded the best bet was actually a weapon like lasers which has more spread in a dogfight or the plasma which sacrificed spread for rate of fire. The gauss was a weapon that you felt good to kill people with because of its sound when firing and its shock factor together with mercs. Really, using gauss the the weapon for action.. you used the gauss when the other person was in sight, where the smart way of playing is when the other player has not arrived at the destination you were expecting them to be, and you just shot there first. By the time the enemy got to your fire you are already gone. The gauss was definitely a feel good weapon, just not the smartest in hindsight. I'd definitely agree that it was OP against the bots though.

Anyway, I think of the current technologies out there and it seems like a weapon for each type would be cool. For example, 1 for lasers (radiant energy?), 1 for plasma, 1 for ballistic (solid), 1 for magnetic, 1 for thermal?, dark matter?, sonic? fusion?.. But really, science fiction has had a thing for a few types of weapons and I don't think that Descent holds a right to be the only 6DoF to have the main ones in-game (laser, plasma and ballistic). Under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_i ... ce_fiction we see lasers and plasma at the top.
Remember this?: http://www.ufopaedia.org/images/thumb/7 ... -Tree1.png
Or this?: http://old-gamer.ru/wp-content/uploads/ ... chtree.png
These games used the same weapons as Descent and they came out before any Descent game.

Descent wasn't the first to have plasma as a weapon technology and perhaps it shouldn't be the last.
How a plasma weapon is shown in-game is a different matter, that's up to the imagination.
What would be good though are weapons for the various occasions in-game for the sake of having weapon balance, in a 1on1 scenario.
A slow weapon like lasers were shown in D, a slightly faster one, a faster one after that, then perhaps a quirky one that is still practical anywhere, and a strong one that is hard to use but still works great with 500 latency latency and does not benefit from having a mouse to aim with over a joystick.

InVader
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by InVader » 30 Nov 2015, 14:26

Well, I played through Descent 2 on the Ace/Insane difficulties where the bots move plenty and it was still easy to hit with it. It was the best weapon for hunting down the Thief as well (granted, although it moves fast, it moves linearly), because of the knockback. At choke points if you managed to hit him with at least 2 shots, you could derail him enough from his path to boost into a wall and then he got stuck for like 1 second, until he chose a new route to take in the mine.

Regarding the weapon technologies... I don't suppose anyone here tried CoD: Adwanced warfare? The sonic shotgun was pretty cool, to be honest. You know, since we already have the minigun as a ballistic weapon, maybe the Dispersion could have this sonic weapon technology.

But that's a tiny mouse among the elephants of issues. I doubt anything other than the ion cannon will be changed by this magnitude.

On and I hope the final game gets at least one nuclear-ish weapon/rocket. A anti-matter torpedo would be nice.

Whiteshark
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Whiteshark » 17 Dec 2015, 20:56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqgZvf8RWno
Looking at the new ion cannon, you can see it being used here. Opinions on whether you like the looks when fighting against it? I don't know about the flashing particles. It stands out in a funny way. Does it look kinda cool though?

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1/2Hawk
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by 1/2Hawk » 17 Dec 2015, 21:54

TBH, I'm not personally all that happy with the Ion projectile, which is my bad cuz I made this one. It's made from two meshes - one stretched oblong shape to give it a good thickness from any side view - and a corona cap on the front so the person shooting it can see it too (other wise its a tiny purple dot). The material on that is pretty crazy so its not a solid flying disc, but from the side you'll often see that look like a flying arrow the way it breaks up. Couldn't use the balls from R3 because, depending on your frame rate, you'd see it skip down the hall given how fast the thing flies. Open for any suggestions.

Image


Oh and for the record, calling BS on the effectiveness of the shotgun at close range doesn't make sense when you guys keep shooting each other from opposite sides of the rooms either... LOL I'd say you're doing about 4 pts of damage at this range, but you both got kills at point blank easily.

Image
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Whiteshark
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Whiteshark » 18 Dec 2015, 08:31

The only thing bs in dispersion is it is easier to click on mouse. On stick I have a hard time shooting fast. (The clicks don't queue so if you aren't precise with the clicks, or fast enough, it shoots really slow. With mouse clicking double the rate of fire is possible, while with stick it is only a little more than 1:1, so the max rof will be harder to achieve.)

InVader
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by InVader » 18 Dec 2015, 21:10

1/2Hawk wrote:TBH, I'm not personally all that happy with the Ion projectile, which is my bad cuz I made this one. It's made from two meshes - one stretched oblong shape to give it a good thickness from any side view - and a corona cap on the front so the person shooting it can see it too (other wise its a tiny purple dot). The material on that is pretty crazy so its not a solid flying disc, but from the side you'll often see that look like a flying arrow the way it breaks up. Couldn't use the balls from R3 because, depending on your frame rate, you'd see it skip down the hall given how fast the thing flies. Open for any suggestions.

Image
I think the projectiles are alright and very pretty actually. What I dislike are the decals/impact effects. Those could use a rework.
1/2Hawk wrote:Oh and for the record, calling BS on the effectiveness of the shotgun at close range doesn't make sense when you guys keep shooting each other from opposite sides of the rooms either... LOL I'd say you're doing about 4 pts of damage at this range, but you both got kills at point blank easily.

Image
Well in my experience it took 3+ shots to kill the enemy when I was practically kissing him.

Let's take a look here:

Image

Blue circle is about the ship's size, the red is the spread. That door is REALLY not that far away, yet only 3-4 bullets would hit the enemy. Imho, at this range a single shot should take about 40 HP.

Whiteshark
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Re: "Fixing" the Ion Cannon and others ideas

Post by Whiteshark » 18 Dec 2015, 23:42

No. It shouldn't. Aren't you worried that the weapon is pretty bloody easy to hit with at that range?

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