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Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 07 Nov 2015, 22:08
by Whiteshark
triple fusions in d3 have some half the dps of supalasers, energy-efficiency is like 20% or something :D
Point made there.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 08 Nov 2015, 03:48
by Ion
Whiteshark wrote:triple fusions in d3 have some half the dps of supalasers, energy-efficiency is like 20% or something :D
Point made there.
Huh? No, I meant between the Lasers and MAC from this game.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 08 Nov 2015, 13:16
by Whiteshark
What I would want to try is a low ping server with MACs. The 150 ping makes it many times harder to hit a moving enemy, since your ship is actually behind the movement you see. Basically when I shoot anything, pressing the trigger will make me shoot from the position I was at some 0,5 seconds before.

Currently I think the weapon depends too much on the ping. I don't know if there is a hitbox or only a ray, but making it slightly bigger and less powerful will make it less about luck and lag, and more about skill.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 09 Nov 2015, 00:08
by Urungus
Would anyone have a problem with increasing the velocity a bit? It doesn't quite have the feel that it's really moving at extreme speeds. The effect gives it that, and yes it's faster than the lasers. How much faster is it than the Gatling?

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 09 Nov 2015, 05:42
by 1/2Hawk
The MAC travels between 3000-6000 UU per sec depending on charge. The Gatling is faster at 7000 UU per sec, which is twice as fast as the lasers at 3500 UU per sec.

A UU is an Unreal Unit, which for all intents and purposes in our game is meaningless... but for rough measure, the Eclipse is about 160 UU across and DM_Neptune is roughly 4000 x 4000 UU (use the upper hallway for a guide). If set to the Gatling speed, you'd get the MAC all the way across Netpune 0.03 seconds faster than it is now. That's probably not awfully noticeable in reality ... but we do have to be careful not to set things too high because without being hitscan weapons, super high velocity projectiles have a nasty tendancy to get on the other side of walls/players before collisions are detected and nobody wants that.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 09 Nov 2015, 06:21
by STealTH
I find the MAC to be a mouse weapon, currently it's great for targeting with as the max sensitivity in the mouse is high enough. If the joystick is to not be disadvantaged, it must be set at max and equal sensitivity to the mouse, which makes aiming though already and aiming with a MAC even tougher. D1/D2 fixed this by having the max sensitivity set as an ideal rate for a joystick. I would rather see the MAC turned into something that has multiple continuous beams/lasers that hit everything in their path and consumes energy, perhaps but two coming from each wing. I'm adamant in that currently, I don't think the MAC is a weapon of skill, entirely. Perhaps allow a Classic mode option to reduce max sensitivity.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 09 Nov 2015, 07:28
by Urungus
1/2Hawk wrote:The MAC travels between 3000-6000 UU per sec depending on charge. The Gatling is faster at 7000 UU per sec, which is twice as fast as the lasers at 3500 UU per sec.

A UU is an Unreal Unit, which for all intents and purposes in our game is meaningless... but for rough measure, the Eclipse is about 160 UU across and DM_Neptune is roughly 4000 x 4000 UU (use the upper hallway for a guide). If set to the Gatling speed, you'd get the MAC all the way across Netpune 0.03 seconds faster than it is now. That's probably not awfully noticeable in reality ... but we do have to be careful not to set things too high because without being hitscan weapons, super high velocity projectiles have a nasty tendancy to get on the other side of walls/players before collisions are detected and nobody wants that.

Understood, thanks for explaining.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 09 Nov 2015, 13:15
by Whiteshark
StealTH, being slightly better on mouse is easily fixed by making the weapon less overpowered and by giving it a hitbox, so you don't have to be quite as accurate. I agree the weapon is currently not much of a skill weapon (on non-laggy servers), because it rewards hitting too much.

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 10 Nov 2015, 05:53
by STealTH
I am of two minds on this one, though tend to come to favor the joystick.

I want more people to play this game, yet, it feels like we have to sacrifice the joystick.
I can't fly for donkeys with a mouse only, but it feels beautiful and the aiming is much better than the stick.
Now having to roll on the kb, this means I must use AB on the mouse which is tough when dogfighting is intense.

I leave this one in the good graces of the Solc gods, though I keep my preference.
A slow weapon places emphasis on prediction for placement (or discovering enemy flight patterns) over accuracy, but do we really want this? only I know I do ; ]

Re: Fixing Big MAC (suggestions)

Posted: 10 Nov 2015, 21:39
by MadMax1998
Interesting discussion.
The one hit kill on full charge seems like a gimmic. It is hard to achieve, except that it is likely used just like triple-fusions in d3, to shoot everywhere hoping for easy kills.
Go have a match with Seb and you'lls ee how he pulls it off regularly ;)