Lasers need more damage

Post your feedback on the feel and balancing of the game here.

Moderator: SolC Development Leads

STealTH
Beta Tester
Posts: 66
Joined: 14 Dec 2013, 16:50
Location: New Zealand

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by STealTH » 10 Nov 2015, 06:12

A slower speed gives another tactical aspect. Shooting then moving shows the enemy where you were, but not where you are at the other end of the tunnel.
It also allows one to cover a greater area in dogfights. I think it would be great if the weapons had escalating firing travel times, from one to the next, as speed seems as important as power.

SgtThorne
Beta Tester
Posts: 61
Joined: 14 Oct 2014, 10:45

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by SgtThorne » 10 Nov 2015, 11:40

Poxy wrote:I disagree with Thorne.

It seems traditional to give the player a weak weapon as a default.

But this only makes sense in single player games. In multiplayer, all weapons should be equal, and none should be objectively lesser than another.

Otherwise, why even include it? Why even bother with having lasers if they will always be inferior to another weapon? There'd be very little reason to use them, making that entire weapon slot a waste.
Your assignment for today is to go and research the term "standard issue". Assignment #2 is to go play all of the Descent series, 1 by 1. What is this world of yours where combat vehicles are outfitted according to misguided/ignorant notions of social justice instead of weapon availability and expedience? Better "standard issue" every ship the comes off the line the the most expensive, high-tech weaponry, and load it to the gills with Mega missiles, lest the pilot find themselves in an unfair situation with only a limp, rubbery (cartoon) Alpha level laser cannon to their credit, and scorning this they choose death in protest because what's the point of even trying. :roll: :P
Running: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
Intel Core i7 4770K @ 4.20GHz Haswell - 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3
EVGA GeForce GTX 960 SSC 4GB - NVIDIA Drivers v10.18.13.5850
Asus Z87-PRO Motherboard - Onboard High Definition Audio

User avatar
Poxy
Beta Tester
Posts: 141
Joined: 04 Nov 2014, 22:41

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by Poxy » 10 Nov 2015, 12:13

Actually Thorne, that's the direction most games are headed in.
Coming pre-equipped with a desired, but limited, load out is very popular. Retro games didn't do that, like 90's Descent, Quake or Doom, but in this day and age, it's a lot more normal to make all guns roughly equal, only, make some better for certain situations or strategies than others.

As far as lore goes, and "standard issue", sure, it makes sense in Descent, per the briefings, but this IS NOT Descent.

I wish an acronym like GNU could exist.

SolC is not Descent.

SCinD.

InVader
Beta Tester
Posts: 65
Joined: 04 Nov 2015, 12:42

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by InVader » 10 Nov 2015, 13:26

Personally, I think it is okay to give the player a weak starting weapon, so that he then has to intelligently traverse the map to grab weapons. We could make the lasers a bit weaker and then give them an upgrade e.g. starting with dual lasers, then picking up quad lasers somewhere on the map. If I would have to through the trouble of picking up the quad lasers first, I would definitively want them to be stronger (like 2.5 - 3.5 full quad lasers shots for 100 HP).

As it stands now, you get the quad lasers right away when you spawn, although it is not that strong. A good trade-off if you ask me.
Poxy wrote:SolC is not Descent.
I agree and I would honestly like to see SolC go further and further away from Descent, because there are some elements of Descent that are just inherently flawed. E.g. Putting large rooms or open areas in a map pretty much ruined the gameplay (as you've experienced in D3), because it was nearly impossible to hit anything that was moving, with your slow weapons (unless you kissed them). Descent very much relied on having claustrophobic maps to counter this.

User avatar
Wookie
Beta Tester
Posts: 36
Joined: 20 Sep 2014, 09:22
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by Wookie » 10 Nov 2015, 18:47

and now a different laser topic:

i think the lasers a set to high in the vision-field of the player ( HUD )
they should be set a tad downwards - away from the center of the viewing field.
maybe they are just too "fat" - in visivble terms, so that its actually distracting/annyoing when shooting them. i also have the feeling that im blinded in the sense of i cant see if something is coming from the side or not. the lasers are too bright and set too "high" in the viewing field.

anyone else feel that way?

InVader
Beta Tester
Posts: 65
Joined: 04 Nov 2015, 12:42

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by InVader » 10 Nov 2015, 20:30

Wookie wrote:and now a different laser topic:

i think the lasers a set to high in the vision-field of the player ( HUD )
they should be set a tad downwards - away from the center of the viewing field.
maybe they are just too "fat" - in visivble terms, so that its actually distracting/annyoing when shooting them. i also have the feeling that im blinded in the sense of i cant see if something is coming from the side or not. the lasers are too bright and set too "high" in the viewing field.

anyone else feel that way?
At first, but over time I got used to them. I'd rather we had more visible dumbfire rockets. They always appear rather dark and therefor totally meld with the environment. The homing missiles have a weird trail as well (I imagine the intention was to show where they were fired from?).

User avatar
MadMax1998
Site Admin
Posts: 1555
Joined: 07 Nov 2012, 13:43
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by MadMax1998 » 10 Nov 2015, 22:40

The "base level weapon" idea was where we originally put the lasers until Seb started reinventing all the weapon stats with the goal to make them all useful against each other. I agree lasers should not be ABSOLUTELY GREAT because that wouldn't give players an incentive to scout for other guns, but they should give you kills.

That said, I feel the lasers can be a huge threat if another player aims well. One quad hit deals 16 units of shield damage. 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, you're dead. That's seven shots if all hit. Add a dumbfire, you're done.
Max
Sol Contingency Programming Lead
Sol Contingency Website

Whiteshark
Beta Tester
Posts: 103
Joined: 19 Oct 2014, 19:44
Contact:

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by Whiteshark » 11 Nov 2015, 14:58

But mac is a lot more effective, and the missiles are too powerful compared to lasers. For example someone with an atlas and a gattling gun will kill you pretty fast if he hits the atlas, but someone who can hit the atlas but has lasers can take a lot longer to make the kill, because you still need at least two volleys and they are not quite as easy to hit. Another thing is that someone with some seekers / other missiles can kill one with lasers and slightly weaker missiles, pretty easily.

User avatar
Urungus
Beta Tester
Posts: 81
Joined: 16 Apr 2013, 18:02
Location: New Jersey USA

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by Urungus » 11 Nov 2015, 19:08

The fact remaining that everyone starts with lasers and they seem weak makes the point temporarily, moot. If you don't like them, use something else. I love using them. (Yes I miss those Yellow Quads and the sound they made.) My aim sucks, but I'm trying to improve. Still playing with my settings. Yes I do feel that the lasers could use a slight damage increase, or rate of fire bump (in Quad mode), but is that game mechanics or my terrible aim?
We're going to need a bigger boat.

Whiteshark
Beta Tester
Posts: 103
Joined: 19 Oct 2014, 19:44
Contact:

Re: Lasers need more damage

Post by Whiteshark » 11 Nov 2015, 19:24

If you don't know whether lasers are op or not don't bother replying here. :) Lasers are currently a weapon like all the others, and not a starters "pistol". Game balance is up to things some people don't care or know much about, and I don't see why they have to express their opinion everywhere. Rather keep on reporting problems you have, and the problems that others have, you either disagree or agree if it somehow concerns you. There are people who want some level of competitiveness for experienced pilots, and they will find lasers ineffective, if not now then pretty soon. There is a lot to game balance right now, but there is no argument that the balance of lasers needs to change at some point.
[EDIT] I might be a bit unfair releasing the steam gathered in another descenty forum if you know what I mean...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest